Stop funding it.
It’s this part.
We’re telling them they’ve gone too far, seeing rules… and giving them weapons. Are we giving them seasons so they listen?
And if they don’t listen, doesn’t this make us complicit and with exceedingly poor intensional optics?
They know that the worst that will happen is a stern warning. “Don’t do that again, but it was justified. But don’t do it… OK, just a little bit, but still.”
The wink and the nod really spoil the effect of the stern look and strong finger wagging…
“We’re telling you not to do this thing, and we assure you all we’ll ever do about you still doing it is to tell you again not to do it whilst carrying on helping you to do it”
How much Israeli money do you reckon went into the pockets of members of the fascist “freedom” caucus?
Congress would need to initiate it unfortunately
Biden: “For fuck’s sake, Israel, don’t do something this monumentally stupid.”
No points for guessing what comes next.
Is it ethnic cleansing?
Oh boy!
“Here I go killin’ again!”
That’s been happening for decades and just last week they starting displacing 1MM more. So I don’t think “next” is the right word.
Ethnic cleansing comes next. It also came previous, but it will come next, too.
I have 500 on anyone who evacuated the Northern area is denied re-entry and the maps change to gaslight the world into thinking Gaza was always that small.
I don’t see why they’d need to occupy anything. Occupation would imply that you wanted to control that area and those people. I think Israel knows occupation would never work and wouldn’t try it. They’ve preferred to wall-off people in enclaves, slowly squeeze all life out of those regions, and when the people they have cornered inevitably violently lash out against their own slow-motion genocide, it’s time to flatten the area with bombs again. Israel calls it “mowing the grass” and I don’t think a massive occupation fits with that strategy. I think they want to break the region, scatter the people, and leave it to rot, not occupy and be forced to manage it into the future indefinitely.
Turning it into the world’s largest open air prison is occupation.
Biden needs to be primaried.
The democratic party keeps making the mistake of picking a winner early.
It’s too late. None of the state parties have any of the setup done for a primary. Once an incumbent president (of either party) declares they’re running again their party automatically backs them. I just feel lucky we have incumbent primaries for Congress.
I mean, I’m voting for West. Democrats only hold power if we say they do. Just don’t vote for Democrats ever again. The only control we have is over ourselves let’s exercise it
If there’s a chance then sure. But I’m not exactly going to stick a fork in my eye just to spite the Democrats.
Voting for Democrats will only exacerbate our problems. Democrats have never made societies problems meaningfully better, at least in the modern era. Its not spiting them, it’s not signing off on the thing we all know will definitely happen. Voting for Biden will make things worse. Voting for West might possibly make things better. The choice is obvious.
If West has a chance sure. If not then we’re just denying votes to the contest between Status Quo man and Fascist man.
Or what?
Edit: FYI I’m not supporting Israel doing this
Or they’ll give them even more money and say some angry things about it.
The USA could end homelessness or hunger (and maybe both) nationally for the amount of money we sent to Israel each year.
No, no they could not lol. Not even remotely close.
The US spends $2 Billion a year on aid to Israel.
They spend $105 Billion a year in direct payments to SNAP (food stamps) recipients.
And $32 Billion a year on section 8 housing vouchers.
It’s almost as if throwing money at free handouts doesn’t fix the problem.
2 billion dollars won’t solve a single thing, nationally.
Since ‘48, we’ve sent over 158 billion in aid- without adjusting for inflation.
It’s more than all other countries combined- including Ukraine.
Even that 2 billion could go a very long way to helping.
You’re right, it could.
In fact, the US could fund a few wars and conflicts, end homelessness, implement socialized healthcare and fund the world’s best public transit system with affordable high-speed trains between cities simultaneously.
But they don’t because they don’t want to, not because they can’t.
Good thing it’s more than Ukraine too. Wouldn’t want any com block arms dealers mouths to go unfed.
That homelessness and hunger are not ended in the USA is not because the money needed is spent on other things, it is because the government doesn’t want to end them.
Glhf passing that bill
“Or else we will be very, very angry with you. And we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.”
Or the region could destabilize and the US has diplomatic cover to limit their hypothetical response to a more defensive set of operations.
Massacring civilians is fine, but occupying is a bridge too far, I guess.
I definitely get your point here, but a ground invasion would be irreversible. They would never leave Gaza
Haven’t they done it twice before? Something like 2006 and 2014?
They didn’t demand evacuation back then. They invaded, killed a bunch of people, declared victory, then left (obvious oversimplification). This time, they ordering the civilian population to leave seems to be an indication they expect to invade, murder stragglers, then annex the land once it’s empty and leveled. It does seem to go along with the rhetoric of “exerting a price they’ve never dreamed of”.
It’s very much a price the Palestinians dream of though. Israeli settler groups did exactly that in 1947.
Death is kinda irreversible too
Agreed. Just needed to point this out
warehouse workers ask Jeff Bezos not to travel by private jet
I mean, the US does have access to the money and weapons faucet Israel relies on.
Israel won’t even need to occupy Gaza after they carpet bomb whats left of it into rubble. 😒
Biden “And definitely don’t occupy 5 different countrys at the same time. Some of them for over 20 years. Come on man!”
Listen here, jack!
*countries
Yeah, what will he or the Democrats do when Israel does occupy Gaza?
Continue to provide unequivocal support and money to Israel?
It’s not like they’ll do anything else like officially recognize Israel has been acting as a apartheid state causing mass human suffering which in turn grew more mass suffering and conflict.
Don’t you dare cross this line!
Ok don’t cross this line!!
Ok don’t cross THIS line!
Ok I’m going inside, if you knock, I’m not coming out.
Obama picked Biden for VP because he was a darling of the Israel lobby, who didn’t particularly like Obama. Anyone who’s satisfied by this sort of lip service from Biden were just looking for any reason to absolve the administration to serve a partisan political alignment.
I think it would be the ultimate show of force if the U.S. gives aid to Israel, tells Israel to not go any further, and when they do, the U.S. obliterates their military. “We helped you and you still lost.” I just wish the innocent wouldn’t get killed. The innocent and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer. Fuck war.
After decades of turning blind eye towards Israel’s crimes, suddenly Murica thinks it’s going too far.
“I think it’d be a big mistake,” Mr. Biden told “60 Minutes” on CBS in a conversation taped on Thursday and aired on Sunday night. “Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don’t represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again.” But “taking out the extremists” there, he added, “is a necessary requirement.”
I’m not sure how anyone is taking this as a controversial take. Logistically, practically, and the urgent bloodthirst for revenge make this fucking hard to do. But this seems to me to be a pretty even keeled non polarizing take on a complex situation where there is justification for military action against a terrorist group, and that military action must be measured against the safety and needs of a civilian population.
I don’t necessarily know if people think it’s controversial. I think people might be annoyed that they are empty words based on what was said to Russia prior to their Ukraine invasion: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-joe-biden-emmanuel-macron-europe-moscow-1f353699f0be1609da5435c98cfc8022
Not comparable. Israel is an ally, and needs our funding. Russia has been an advocacy or “enemy of my enemy” type more or less for a hundred years
Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.
Because Israel already occupies Gaza and other Palestinian areas.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, where the hell are you getting your information?
Israel still controls all traffic, imports, utilities, and ingress/egress from the area (if it didn’t, they wouldn’t have been able to cut off power, water, and aid). Israel “withdrawing from Gaza” doesn’t really mean much unless Gaza has elected representation and can sustain itself.
It’s ok I told the angry pitbull to not attack the baby I slathered in steak sauce. Anyway, off to golf.
The US is sending mix signals. Biden condemns Hamas, calls them terrorists, and funds the iron dome. Of course Israel thinks they have carte blanche in the region. Surrounded by hostile nations, what other nations in the world acts as aggressive as Israel. They do it because they know they have the full backing of the US. The question is will we live in a world without any Palestinians in the middle east soon - coz that’s where we’re headed.
Israel misspelled their defense system. Should be called the irony dome.
I agree with you. But I’d like to add this. I live in Israel at the moment, I’m not Israeli but I moved here for my job. I live in a pretty safe area, but we still had rockets coming from Gaza and from up north Hezbolla. They were explicitly targeting civilian areas. But iron Dome and the other system, David something intercepted it. Perspective on life changes when you see a flying missile heading your way only to get intercepted by these systems. The area where I live is full of Arabs, Jews, immigrant from Eastern Europe etc. and had several pro-palastine rallies in the past couple of days, and I stand with them. Also, There have been at least 5 to 6 Hamas strikes every hour since last week, they are targeting everywhere around Israel and iron Dome is on full protection.
I just wanted to add, I don’t know what for…
I imagine your perspective also changes if the missiles were landing and killing people, innocent civilians all around you, your house, hospitals, etc. That’s what it’s like for the people in Gaza. It also looks pretty suspicious when there’s lots of immigrants in Israel and mostly Palestinians in a separate cordoned off area (kinda like an apartheid state).
There are quite a lot of palastinians here mate. You should really visit Palestine when you get a chance… the amount of people chanting death to the Jews is kind of absurd.
Please try and check out some telegram groups or sites like Funker etc for leaked footage. Hamas holds them hostage during the knock-off alert. IDF doesn’t target civilians explicitly. The nuances of this war are a bit deeper than what we can convey in text here.
Also see that Israel has asylum for gay/trans people fleeing Palestine or middle east. My point being, Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war, but some horror stories about Hamas (and other terrorist organisations) are really depraved.
I support peace. That is all. No more bloodshed.
Edit: I forgot to add this… when I said perspective, I’m talking about perspective on life. Not in this war or religion or anything else. Just living and life in general
Israel does try to be as humane as possible in this war
How can you possibly say this when the number of people Israel has killed dwarfs the number of people killed by any Palestinian terrorist group, Hamas or otherwise?
I support peace too but one side of this equation is tipped so far that it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously that claims Israel’s goals are anywhere near the vicinity of “peaceful” or “humane”.
That being said… stay safe. I can’t imagine the situation you’re in.
I mean, ya, there’s a lot of Palestinians there. That’s because Israel took their land. There’s also a lot of black people in South Africa, even during apartheid, too. But tons of them were still pushed off their homes into tiny strips of land in Gaza and the West Bank, so now the majority are in those other places. The same thing happened to the natives in the US.
IDF don’t target civilians explicitly but they also don’t seem to care about them. They’ve killed thousands more civilians than Hamas has with the barest of excuses, all to find Hamas not really caring about collateral. That’s what happens when you drop bombs all over the place. And the fear and terror and horrible quality of life causes things like Hamas. Hamas sucks, I’m sure they would kill more if they could, but Israel has the power in this relationship. When non-violent protests lead to killed or getting your knees blown off, or to nothing at all (like most protests for Palestinians have been for the last near century), when there’s no hope or chance of growth, the average is 18 and you’re probably never going to grow old or successful, then people turn to monsters like Hamas.
Thank you for adding it. It boils down to regular people being hurt, and as an outsider I feel helpless because there doesn’t seem to be a good solution, just less bad ones.
Like there’s constantly a few kids ruining everything for the rest of us.
Now that it’s been a week since Hamas attacked, there’s all these stories coming out about how the IDF didn’t even respond to the attack for an hour, and how many friendly fire incidents keep happening, and how incompetent the ground troops are in general. The certainty in their military might is completely gone and now there’s no telling what could happen. Western allies have basically given them carte blanch approval for genocide and now some of them aren’t so certain.
But he said he was convinced that “the Israelis are going to do everything in their power to avoid the killing of innocent civilians.”
It certainly does more than Hama’s ever did. I like how people conveniently forget that not only operating a military HQ bunker under a hospital is a warcrime in and of itself, it also makes it a legitimate war target.
I wrote this long ass comment for another person but I want to put it here too. Hamas having bunkers in a densely populated area under the city is not a “war crime”. The whole thing with Hamas using human shields by setting up camp inside Gaza is BS.
What I mean to say is that when people say “human shields”, they mean when civilians are forced into crossfire to protect the enemy troops. However, there exists the notion of “proximity shielding”.
If you check the Wikipedia page for human shields:
Authors Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, elaborating on their book, Human Shields: A History of People in the Line of Fire, discuss “proximate shields”, humans as shields merely due to proximity to belligerents and assert that this type has become “by far the most prominent type of shield in contemporary discourse”. They say that the proximate shielding accusation has been used by States to cover-up war crimes against civilian populations and that human rights organizations frequently fail to question this charge which they claim is being improperly used to justify civilian deaths.[7]
There are several pieces that discuss this idea, but here are some.
In this analysis piece of proximity shielding, we read:
Our research suggests that human rights and humanitarian organizations have been complicit with this framing exercise and that it is urgent to have a frank conversation about human shields and the legal and political implications of the human shielding accusation. Both in our book and in several academic articles, we have shown that hi-tech States spend considerable resources on media campaigns and mobilize legal and military expertise to justify their use of lethal violence in cities where civilians are trapped.[ii] We describe how human shields, and particularly the charge of proximate shielding, are being widely used by States and their militaries to justify civilian deaths in asymmetric conflicts, and how it has become a major tool in what we have called the ‘erosion’ of the civilian. **
If you turn your eyes back to the wiki page I first linked under the section on Israel and Palestine:
Israel has used the charge, in what has been termed its ‘infowar’ on social media,[56] to explain the high ratio of civilian vs military casualties in its conflict with Gaza. In Operation Cast Lead 100 Gazans died for every Israeli, and the civilian ratio was 400 Gazans to 1 Israeli. Israeli spokesmen explained the difference by alleging that Hamas used civilians as shields. It has been argued that no evidence has come to light proving these claims.[57][58][59][60] In September 2004, Justice Aharon Barak presiding over the Israeli Supreme Court, issued a demand that the IDF desist from the practice of using Palestinians as human shields, and in October outlawed the procedure.[61] The independent human rights NGOs B’tselem and Amnesty International have stated that ample evidence exists in conflicts after that date that Israel has employed Palestinians as human shields. According to B’tselem, the practice goes back to 1967.[55][61]
Finally, this article discusses the politics surrounding the idea of human shields
By these means, entire populations and vast cities are reduced to war space. Prevailing hierarchies of humanity ensure that some places and some people are far more likely to find themselves expendable through the twisted logics and framings of the human shield.
I hope this makes my point clear but basically: Israel is using proximity shielding (aka accusing Hamas of using civilians as human shields) to justify ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and has itself had to outlaw the use of Palestinians as human shields because it was a normal part of Israeli military operations and totally allowed until all the human rights groups finally succeeded in outlawing it, and yet Israel still sometimes uses it.
And yet nobody has ever shown pictures or evidence that they do that. We hear about it constantly, but not one photo to back it up in a world of pocket cameras.
Hamas are a fucking blight, but I’m tired of the same god damned excuses for Israel’s bad behavior. Fuck the IDF. Fuck Hamas. Fuck the whole lot assholes who put innocents in danger.
Civilians, Israeli or Palestinian, should not be pawns. The one immutable fact is, only one side here has any real power.
Exactly. And yet we have these pieces of evidence and we ignore them.
-
Palestinian Children ‘Routinely Tortured & Used As Human Shields By Israeli Forces’, Says UN
-
And finally this classic from which the iconic photo comes from
Photo:
EDIT: I see the downvotes, from all my heart I say, “fuck you”. These are all examples of times when Israel used Palestinians as human shields and the world ignores it.
“Woops! Another journalist died. We didn’t see the blue helmets. We’re colorblind lol!”
Giant long post propping up a terrorist organization. Fuck yourself.
operating a military HQ bunker under a hospital is a warcrime in and of itself, it also makes it a legitimate war target.
Even if this were true, by International Humanitarian Law it does not make it a legitimate war target. One side committing war crimes is never carte blanche for the opposing side to also commit war crimes.
An example, just because Russian soldiers raped little kids in Bucha does not magically allow the Ukrainians to bomb hospital or to execute non-combatants. IHL intents explicitly to avoid tit for tat. Remember that the Russians also justify bombing hospitals and civilian residential buildings by accusing Ukrainians of using them as human shields.
It’s funny how the IDF just classifies hospitals, apartments, UN camps, and schools as military targets and you don’t ask any questions. Just how many HQs does Hamas have?
Israeli bombing leveled entire villages in Gaza and the West Bank on the first night after the attack, over 300 children were killed in just that night. They’ve destroyed numerous apartment blocks, hospitals, schools with airstrikes. They struck a convoy of refugees on a road specifically designated as a safe route for evacuation, killing 70 people in one strike, mostly women and children.
It certainly does more than Hama’s ever did.
Normally? Yeah I guess.
Now? No way. People have been bombed while evacuating to supposed safe locations or along safe routes. Like many times.
Its crazy to me the amount of support HAMAS is getting by random people on the internet.
Yes, Isreal has done terrible things, but you have to compare it to what their enemies are doing and would do in their place. HAMAS attacked civilians on purpose, executed babies and elderly. Kidnaped, tortured, and raped. Desicrated bodies, dragging them behind vehicles while cheering. Went door to door executing entire villages.
If roles were reversed, HAMAS would flatten the gaza strip. They wouldn’t give two thoughts about civilians.
Or maybe we’re capable of condemning both! “You have to compare it to what their enemies are doing” hints that you arent. Isreal on the state and military levels is abhorrent shit, AND so is Hamas. One of them being garbage monsters doesnt stop the other one from being
Israeli bombing leveled entire villages in Gaza and the West Bank on the first night after the attack, over 300 children were killed in just that night. They’ve destroyed numerous apartment blocks, hospitals, schools with airstrikes. They struck a convoy of refugees on a road specifically designated as a safe route for evacuation, killing 70 people in one strike, mostly women and children.
It doesn’t matter what occurred before this, to point out the atrocities still on-going doesn’t mean you are a supporter of Hamas, and within Palestine there are several militant and other political groups. To support Palestine doesn’t mean you support Hamas or terrorism.
Too late?
Sure if you skew the definition of occupy enough, or can’t distinguish between Gaza and the West Bank, because all you know is propaganda.
Go look at a map of the UN borders. Then look at a map of where Israeli troops are
Now come back here and say that again with a straight face.
Do you think we will hear back from them?
Doubt it.
You’re not even in the conversation, what are you trying to contribute, more hate?
Okay I will. Israel pulled out of Gaza to let them have their independence and self govern, they elected a terrorist organization to run the place. Israel has not governed Gaza since then, nor has is occupied the territory. If you want to spread misinformation, at least pick something you know anything about.
Israel pulled out of Gaza to let them have their independence and self govern, they elected a terrorist organization to run the place. Israel has not governed Gaza since then, nor has is occupied the territory.
This is only true under a definition that is entirely biased towards Israel. Israel funded the elections in question, which were held over 18 years ago (long enough to where the average Palestinian *wasn’t even born yet much less had the right or ability to vote), and controls all food, water, supplies, utilities, and ingress/egress into the area. That is not “let[ting] them have their independence and self-govern”.
Delusional.
Isreal doesn’t recognize Palestine as a state. They say they are in charge of it.
You can’t even tell the difference between West Bank and Gaza, just grouping them into Palestine. Seriously, go educate yourself before regurgitating propaganda.
Israel literally controls everything. That’s how they cut water and electricity.
They don’t control it, they’re providing it free of charge.
No they’re not. They cut it off.
They stopped providing these services free of charge to the enemy when the war started.
Israel already controls every aspect of life in Gaza. They ration how much food and water they allow in, to keep them near starvation.
The ration how many weapons are smuggled in and how much aid Hamas can build rockets out of. Hamas rations out the starvation.
Why are you just making shit up?
