Soo, you disagree with the proxy war analysis? Because that‘s the heretic view, you might want to explain that.

And which drone „attacks“ do you think are actually Russian provocations? Because last I heard those never come through upon further inspection, it‘s all consent manufacturing.

What‘s your perspective about our European internal propaganda, what are aspects of that?

Dude, everything is either Chinese or Russian propaganda. Lol!

If he pretends it didn’t, it’s because he’s looking at it from putin’s frame.

That‘s dumb. People have independent thought. You‘re looking at it from US imperialism‘s frame. Grats.

Like with israel and Palestine where israel tries to pretend everything started on October 7th.

Yes, like with Israel, here the West again, tries to pretend everything started at a specific date. Correct.

The rest of your comment is just cope, sorry. I‘m shocked how true this meme rings.

You‘re the definition of willfully ignorant then. These people do serious research, they’ve certainly got more facts, than what you’ve read. Effectively, you do nothing but regurgitate propaganda and at the same time accuse respectable people of being some kind of stooge for the evil enemy. Do you even feel yourself? I‘m sorry to have wasted my time on you.

We’re not talking about believing. We’re talking about what is. “When did the war start” is not as relevant as you make it out to be. It’s just besides the point.

Oh man, that‘s rude. Thank god, you found a reason to dismiss everything I wrote and choose ignorance. Is this guy now an evil genocide denier, because western media told you so and because of that it’s forbidden to look at what he (and all the people that actually did the research) wrote or ever have written? You don’t think that’s a bit dumb? Or what, he‘d paid by the enemy! Ha, I got it! Traitor!

It’s funny tho, that you found something that triggers your Pavlovian conditioning, I admit.

What’s with the part before that, if you already quote wikipedia?

(…) that he “did not believe there was reliable evidence or investigation to meet the high legal burden of genocide under international law” and that his remarks corresponded with similar statements by figures such as former UN advisor Jeffrey Sachs and the former president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars William Schabas, as well as the US State Department’s Office of the Legal Adviser.

How about you read the fucking article he wrote then. You might end up learning something. These counterpunches from western-aligned figures are to be expected. Always. Did you learn nothing from the Palestinians and the corresponding media narratives?
Btw, newbloom are a bunch of US-based Taiwanese people. This should irritate you.

The whole fucking point was, that you absolutely should inform yourself about the stuff, that runs counter to the western narrative. But then your first impulse is to go all like 🙈🙉🙊 on the slightest dissonance. You gobble up every dumb ass western narrative from actually genociding states and their spokespeople and then dismiss serious political science work trying to decipher world politics, just because it might run counter to your indoctrination.

Here, how about you read a book or something: Telling Tall Tales: Uyghur Genocide As a Political Stratagem. Or at least send me a copy, if you got too much money, because I am actually interested to learn.

Many claims of genocide do not present a prima facie case of the intent to destroy a group, let alone show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. They are a stratagem to enhance the claimant’s position in an inter-state or intra-state conflict. Claims about China’s Xinjiang are not based on the mass killings associated with genocide, but on birth limits for minorities in 2017-2021 that included practices previously applied to China’s Han majority for decades, plus brief family separations of a few minority children. These assertions impel Western sanctions and incite anti-Chinese sentiment but are empirically unsupported and degrade the concept of genocide.

But hey, writing “no thanks man” surely does the trick. Have good day then.

And since you really don’t need to be a Communist or Putin-Troll to have a more sober perspective on this war, you could also just learn from people like John Mearsheimer, a so-called neorealist, western political scientist based in NY, who actually just started a YT-Channel of all things. And in his first proper video, he explains his perspective on the origins of the war in Ukraine.

Exclusively for you now, got a bit long, oopsie…

The US is the dictating force of NATO, without the US there would be no NATO, claiming otherwise is either cope or ignorance. Yes, there are factions in NATO, but ultimately NATO does what the US wants. The US is the world hegemon and their NATO friends mere junior partners. So naturally, US foreign policy is extremely relevant to NATO policy and if you’ve actually read the papers, which you haven’t 😝, you’d find out the following:

The US National Security Strategy (2022) says its top priority is “out-competing China and Constraining Russia” and that a key goal is that “Russia’s conventional military will have been weakened” (p.23, p.26). Which is exactly what they’re working on by letting Ukraine bleed out for their interests.
Let’s stop pretending that any of the western nation states are actually interested in the well-being of the Ukrainian (or their own) people. The US and several European states are actively deporting men that fled the war, only for them to be put in suicide squads at the front. These states do not give a shit about the people, these are wars in the interest of the capitalist class. And this is clearly not an idea originating from the invasion. But I’m not going to collect 20 more sources, that which I think you won’t read or even accept as valid. These comments already are quite time consuming.

By now, the US National Security Strategry (2026) shifts to “prioritize deterring China” and says NATO allies should take “primary responsibility for Europe’s conventional defense” (p.10, p.11). And we know, that defense is an euphemism for “defending the interests of capital, by using force”. Well, I do, not sure about you.
In practice this means, that the European NATO countries are supposed to fight the eastern flank by their own, hence the remilitarization and extreme anti-Russia propaganda, while the US can focus to build up militarily for a potential war with China.
Overall, it’s an offensive, belligerent strategy to remain the world’s sole super power by force. China with their economic strategy is taking over, the US is trying to stay on top. Part of that strategy is to isolate China by first disintegrating Russia. Some mad men even talk about the “decolonization of Russia”, which means to Balkanise the huge state into lots of smaller, easier to handle US puppet regimes.

And that’s just the official strategy, nothing covert, no shenanigans, just the immediate concrete outlook into their general future plans, supported by several scholars and analysts.

Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.

Ya, nobody needs to proclaim “I support US imperialism”, but most of you proactively do just that. To never actually deal with the realities of how and why the Empire acts on the world stage. Instead what always happens is to only circlejerk on the West’s enemies and attack any critique of their beloved nation states, which is in practise doing the deeds for US Imperialism. And that’s what’s happening on most .world and .feddit comms. A bubble, where even self-prescribed leftists, anarchists and pseudo-communists will defend the wars of the Empire. It’s sickening.

Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?

No, not a popularity contest, but I call to realize that there’s thinking people outside of the Western sphere of influence. It’s nice that it’s “debatable” in Western circles, but that’s not the reality world wide over and us here being free to debate it in the west doesn’t change the dynamics, because it’s not our wars, it’s the wars of the capitalist class, we are the human material they use to fight them.

Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started.

This isn’t a competition on who started how many wars. I also don’t know why you feel the need to construct your demand in such a specific way. When NATO “intervened” in Bosnia, they actually started an imperial war out of geopolitical strategic interests. Just because you’re getting sold a different story, doesn’t make it a reality. Every NATO operation is one too many.
I’ve got a serious reading suggestion for you: NATO: The Most Dangerous Organisation on Earth. It’s a great dossier, I’ve read it and found it really interesting and conclusive, I recommend!

And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.

I do this, because these communities of my fellow people are being strangled by western war propaganda. Like, actually all you get is western, state capitalist aligned media. You’ll have several accounts with the sole purpose to spread anti-Russia and anti-China sentiment and propaganda articles – never ever once stuff that seriously aims to understand the world, only ever to divide and conquer. Just check out accounts such as Hotznplotzn, Sepia, Randomname or Tardigrade, these are not normal users, they have a specific mission and are tolerated and protected by the admins and they will defend every dumb shit, as long as it’s against the western adversaries. Discussion that veers off the allowed path will get you ostracised, just look at the discussion between Wildmimic and LeoDalPozzo, where Wildmimic basically rage quit because they had nothing, zero, nada. Their indoctrinated misinformation came to it’s logical conclusion, by calling their opponent a Putin troll and tankie, not dissimilar to what you want to do, if we’re being honest.

I don’t do this because I’m pro anything or paid from anyone. It’s because I see how fenced in the breadth of opinions in these comms are and it’s making all of you into hawkish war lemmings, not into critical thinkers forming their own opinions. You eat what you are being fed and start to hate what the people that want war want you to hate, so it’s easier to mobilize you to the front, or at least make them help attacking those, that don’t want war.
Case in point: you fearing anything that’s not trotting the western path and deeming it “Russian propaganda”, forgetting, that Russia too is a sovereign state fighting in defense of their interests. To form a better understanding of the world, one would have to avoid only ever drinking from the same feeding tube. I’ve been there, myself. In the beginning I was cheering for Ukraine, but with the clearly despicable role of the West in regards to Palestine and the abhorrent role our media plays to create a completely alternative reality, I started to actually explore for myself. You should, too.

Not sure, if I’ll answer your comment about the leaders in palaces and North Korea in this other thread, as I’m not even sure you wanna hear it. Usually, people just want to vent, because they can’t stand the dissonance. Do you just vent?

Doomed if I do, doomed if I don’t. Now isn’t that a great situation.
Tell me, what it means to show my “true colors”? You mean when my own analysis and knowledge of this war comes to the conclusion, that yes, it’s straight up a NATO instigated war, then what? I’m a tankie? A putin troll? You do realize for one, that this is a childish reaction and also that it’s a widely accepted perspective, right? Yes, I identify the West as the main malevolent player, but that doesn’t mean I side with Putin or excuse the war or anything. That logical leap is just dishonest badmouthing. But that’s what you want to do, if you talk about “true colors”, right? Pure cowardice.

Have you read the Russia and China parts of the US NSS papers I cited earlier? What do you conclude from that?

Okay, so, I see that as an admission that you were just spewing bullshit and now can’t defend it.

Is there an example of a functioning properly communist state?

If anything, then it’s socialist states, as Communism is per definition a state-less society, which can’t develop as long as Capitalism is still a thing. Socialism is the phase between Capitalism and Communism, when the working class has seized power and starts to socialize every aspect of production, infrastructure and housing.

I’m not going to put down a lengthy answer, but I found a good one on reddit. There you can read about actual existing socialist states, if you’re actually interested.

Dude, I never implied that people use the word communist when they mean socialist. As I said, gtfo. Which I actually can’t say, as .world mods have a hard on with their civility rule. You keep yapping and yet, yourself did not once engage with anything I said. You argued a strawman to derail. Get a hobby.

Interesting derailment yap. You started the crap-talk and mixed in some insults, now I’d kindly suggest you to fo.

Is Red Scare a thing or not?
Does Trump invoke an enemy stereotype or not?

What’s straight up delusional and I’d therefore highly contest, is the idea, that everyday Americans (or Western Europeans for that matter) think of “aspirational communism under a vanguard socialist state”, when their responses are impulsive and dehumanizing, and write stuff like “communist rat bastards”. Which is a kneejerk, indoctrinated reaction by their own admission. Mixed with obviously wrong concepts on what Communism or Socialism even are. Which is also the reason it’s so easy to rile up people against opposition. You just bad mouth them as communist. I really don’t give a shit, how stuff is understood in your post-soviet country, as it has no bearing in regards to the US.

And as I don’t think you really are delusional, I’m certain you’re just bad faithing. Get off my back with your fantasies.

Oh rly? Which communists put fascist dictators in charge? Please, enlighten me.

First off, noone aquitted Russia of their guilt, so stfu with this leap of logic. Second, stop being so whiney, NATO isn’t your Daddy.

Sorry, what was the actual point you want me to address to not be as obnoxious as you, since you could address it yourself? Obviously I’m replying to a specific aspect of the user’s commentary, which was dehumanizing in nature.

You’re saying that Cuba, DPRK, China are not also recried as Commies? Wonder who’s being pedantic for whatever reason.

Also, Communism and Communists are real things, not solely academic concepts. Reducing it as such is a questionable approach. Why should we adhere to the propaganda of the US to redefine what words mean?

Yes, I’m a Magician, let me try summoning some of this stuff with this spell:
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own. The Ukrainian people will have to suffer as long as it takes, as several US and European politicians have acknowledged. This is the goal, so the US can focus on the indo-pacific and ultimately, together encircle China, the main enemy, as stated in the US National Security Strategy papers 2022 and 2026. But alas, accepting that US and EU are the problem for world peace would also mean dropping the nationalist rose glasses. Or actually reading this kind of stuff.

Now provide your reasonable reaction.

Do you know about the Red Scare? It‘s the systematic negative propaganda towards anything questioning the capitalist system that underpins the US-American existence. And that‘s usually Communism, as that‘s the system in direct opposition to Capitalism.
The knee jerk reaction your dad (but you also, up there) showed is a result of that. One hardly can escape that, as it‘s part of the lived reality.
However, it‘s just that, propaganda. Once you start to realize that, you can take steps to see through it. Here Trump is invoking the same boogeyman to vilify his opposition, even tho it‘s likely not even communist or socialist, but just against the capitalist oligarchy.

(Simplified) Communism is a stateless society, where the economic basis of class differences has been overcome. Socialism is one step towards that, it‘s the situation after the means of production, but also stuff like housing have been socialized.
Class difference refers to the contradiction between the exploited working class (any wage laborer, not able to live off of their wealth alone) and the exploiting owning class, the Capitalists (owning the means if production and the land)

Sadly, you‘ll hardly find the discussion you‘re longing for on here.

lemmy.world has an extreme western bias and is intolerant towards voices critical of the west.
Whatever narrative is the currently one preferred from the Zeitgeist, will get (partially pro-actively) amplified here. Arguing for the genocidal practices of Israel and excusing any kind of support from US and European states is still accepted. Being critical, doubtful or in opposition to the Ukraine war is frowned upon and will get you called names.
Repeating islamophobe, sinophobe and russophobe stereotypes is part of the etiquette.

What are commie rat bastards and why are socialists preferred, while communists are dehumanized?

The source is an US-American pro-war think tank.

You’re doing a good job, nice to have you around and busy! Although, I do hope you’re able to offset the experiences here with some positive RL stuff.