I never thought I’d see Lemmy so desperately supporting a theocratic dictatorship that allows women to be stoned to death for minor “offenses” to their archaic code, but here we are.
For a lot of people on here, tankies especially, anyone that opposes the West is incapable of doing harm and must be defended at all costs. Human rights abuses are ignored so long as they can go “west bad”. Like, yes, the West is indeed bad. That doesn’t excuse the awful actions of the regimes that oppose them nor make it okay.
very convenient to label anyone as tankie who is against liberal zionists. No is excusing wrong doings of the iranian govt, however we need to be real here, western regime changes have never been good and particularly how this is openly israel backed is even more problematic. Not to forget govt still has support in iran and in case of regime change it would lead to catastrophic civil war - surely that wont liberate women. I dont support religious theocracy but we need to deal with reality, what happened to the “lesser of two evils” you liberals yap about all the time?
It sounds like you are against the protesters, which in reality is supporting the government…
Yes. Supporting the government is in reality opposing Zionism. I know it’s hard logic, but bear with me.
There is no alternative to the current government of Iran that is capable of organizing the military to defend against the US and Israel.
If the current government were to fall, the military would have a two-way fight that they would need to navigate, splitting their focus and creating mass paranoia.
It would be almost impossible to tell the difference between a legit revolution and a CIA color revolution, of which we have documented evidence.
So, if you oppose Zionism you must support the Iranian government, and if you support the Iranian people overthrowing their government TODAY then you support Zionism.
But you can be smarter than that and be like the rest of us who want the Iranian people to overthrow their government and since we want that the only way we can support them is by ending the threats from Israel and the US and Britain. If we can end the threats, then the Iranian people will have the safety to manage their own affairs.
Today, they are under siege and must not lose at all costs.
I say if Iranian people want to overthrow the current system then I’m all for it, rooting for the status quo against their will “for the greater good” sounds fucked up to me. Iranian people should be the one deciding the outcome here.
It’s not possible for the people of Iran to decide the outcome. That’s what you’re ignoring. If Iran was completely disconnected from this plane of existence, sure, do it.
But Mossad is literally operating inside Iran and has been for years. During the attempted decapitation attack last year, when Israel shot missiles from fighter jets into apartments of top scientists and politicians, it was also discovered that Mossad was operating entire buildings as forward bases, with large amounts of drones, munitions, and recon capabilities.
Yes, it would be great for the people of Iran to decide, but it would require them to weaken the control and capabilities of the state, which woul guarantee Israeli and US involvement immediately.
The reason the Iranian people are not able to change their government is because they are under siege.
Iranian people are opposing the current government and Israel and US are benefiting from that, it doesn’t mean the Iranese will doesn’t exist or that they’re somehow subjugated or acting in orders by Israel and US. Suggesting that is frankly a bit offensive towards those protesting.
If you’re looking for some pure revolution where there aren’t any outside forces supporting the revolutionaries or benefiting from their actions, I don’t think such revolution has happened in modern times.
This is the first time Trump could actually do something meaningful to improve something in the world. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
You think starting a second Iran War is “meaningful?” Wow.
Ironic you no doubt lament and scorn the right for falling for propaganda.
I’d say the current situation in Iran is comparable to civil war; support for the rebels would probably help speed up things and reduce deaths on their side.
The only war is the ongoing one with Israel and the US and Iran and their allies. I suspect your media and sources of information are doing you a disservice if you see things like that.
Be honest, do you see the theocratical regime in Iran as a positive thing? Iran under the Shah was pretty progressive and actually gave a shit about basic human rights, something you can’t say about Iran today.
Yeah the basic human rights of BP to have access to Iran’s resources
The Shah was incredibly repressive. Infamous secret police. The ruling class had some rights, got their pictures taken smiling.
This is all just trying to restart the war and you are going along with it, why? Because you believe them? That the shah was great, that the protests can topple the regime here?
You didn’t answer my question. Do you approve of the current status of Iran as a theocratical-military dictatorship?
I have no say in the government of Iran. The only thing we have a say in is if we give the worst people in the world cause to war against them more. You don’t either. Iran government mean, US/Israel Warring good, is your logic here.
As if that would help anything, it would make it worse. But helping isn’t the point, distracting the public for israel is.
Depressing how astroturfed by Zionists Lemmmy has become.
Its becoming a micro Reddit.
I would think not supporting the Iranian regime does not instantly make one a Zionist.
I think this is really the true problem with tankies. They’ll support any oppressive regime as long as it opposes the US.
The quickest way of knowing an NPC has been indoctrinated by neocon propaganda is when they call a government that the Zionists dont like a “regime”
I guess oppressive “regimes” that do America’s bidding are fine in your book. If you’ve ever stopped to think about the inconsistency, that is.
The problem with liberals, should I can you a liberal? The problem with liberals is they call everyone with a point they don’t understand a tankie.
We can agree that the current government is very oppressive, and we can agree that it would be great to replace them.
What we can’t seem to get across to you is that being able to show your hair everywhere and wear skirts again is not worth giving away the country’s future by giving control of your oil to the US and helping expand your genocidal neighbor Israel. That’s what’s on offer, not freedom and liberation, but liberal/secular civil laws and a puppet dictatorship to ensure you never say you’re unhappy again.
Iran will seem like it’s flourishing, western media will broadcast images of women in bikinis at the beach and the shah being celebrated in parades, economic sanctions will be removed and cost of living will improve for a lot of people, some people will be rich again as corruption runs rampant but that will be reported on as the success of capitalism. The poor will be worse off, the dictator will disappear anyone who dares question him, just like his father did. And Iran will become a country that lives off US subsidies and military contacts, like every other middle eastern country with a US puppet.
You don’t have to be a Zionist to support the fall of the Iranian regime. In my university there’s a fairly large Iranian community and bro they are begging for Donald Trump not only to bomb, but to even straight up start a full scale invasion. Especially women are so fed up man
Thats like the Cubans in Florida who want regime change. They dont represent anyone except themselves. Also Iran is diverse and there are minority groups like the Kurds who want their own state.
Most Iranians migrants are also fanatical Zionists because they think israel will make their dreams come true of dismembering Iran into half a dozen warring countries.
Also I have to add that Iran had been under crippling sanctions from the US regime and its.proxies.for over 15 years. this has eviscerated the economy and is a form of economic warfare to impoverish the population and force them yo turn against their government. It is yet another war crime the US regime engages in with abandon.
The US and company fomented the unrest to the best of their ability you can be sure. Coming on the heels of a bad faith war with Israel and the US that Iran was powerless to respond to, having to be humiliated and have nothing of substance to return with, these protests will be ruthlessly crushed as Iran rallies around the flag.
The protests are associated with the US. Even before the president talked about it. The US is doing all it can to exacerbate them too.
Celebrating this is naive, this is just more cause for war being manufactured so Israel can postpone elections longer, and associated bullshit in the US’ Israel First policy.
Iran powerless even after the terrorist orgs they bankroll went wonky? Tell that to the unarmed civilians they shot in the fucking face.
You’re a disgusting anti-human ghoul, shilling for tyrants and murders.
Yes not giving the US and Israel cause for more Iran war is “disgusting,” great point. That is the quality of conversation I have come to expect from the mechanized troll legions and their carpet bombing of social media campaigns with diarrhea shit.
It works on some people, the weak minded.
Why do you consider rape, murder, and maiming as state policy as an acceptable way to terrorize the Iranian people for protesting?
Israel rapes kills and murders. You want to give them cause to wreck havoc in Iran.
Iran rapes, kills and murders.
Israel rapes, murders, shunts millions of others into ghettos and tries to final solution them all, while lashing out at their powerless neighbors with absolute military and intelligenc superiority, under false pretenses. Then schemes to keep lashing out after international pressure forced them to put their fhetto reprisals and bad neighborism back on simmer.
Which is where we are. Restarting bad faith war between an advanced military with unlimited funds and a rudimentary military with limited funds.
You are going to get those protesters hurt with your cassus belli here.
I dont want a war. I dont want military intervention. I just want these protestors to succeed. I know some of them. They should not have to live under the IRI anymore.
Nah, you can be the next Syria, or have an American puppet in place to syphon off the country’s wealth.
So let’s just keep the Mullahs, at least then the country’s wealth is siphoned off to individuals with Iranian Passes.
I would love it if the Iranians had another revolution on their terms. However, you’re naive as hell if you think that would happen without western meddling. It’s already the root cause for most of the material conditions that cause these grievances.
Sanctions isolate Iran and actively hurt the common people. Israel and the US are constantly threatening, attacking, and doing espionage meaning the government is in constant threat and has to be more authoritarian to survive. The whole reason for the revolution was the people getting pissed at the Shah, our western puppet from before.
This has been a decades long project that you are being suckered into cheering for.
I’ve been suckered into this by knowing Iranians who don’t want to live under the Mullahs any more.
And western meddling did not force the IRI to enact a brutal gender apartheid while also effectively putting Persian Iranians above all other ethnicities. Western meddling did not force the IRI to beat Mahsa Amini to death.
The Regime is under constant threat? Good. They should be.
I’ve been suckered into this by knowing Iranians who don’t want to live under the Mullahs any more.
Who told you? mullahs still enjoy significant support
Family of ex partner still living Iran.
